EP16 → Georgia Fenwick on Sobriety and Creativity
In this episode, Nora speaks to Georgia Fenwick, an entrepreneur, writer, and mother who got sober at 22. We discuss how Georgia got sober, the impact it has had on her creativity, the challenges she faced in shutting down her creative side as she focused on being functional, and what has helped her reconnect with her full self. We also talk about motherhood, her business and her thoughts on the concept of home.
Find Georgia's work here.
Find Papo's Bagels here.
TRANSCRIPT
Georgia Fenwick
Nora Logan: [00:00:00] This is So, Life Wants You Dead a show that explores the intersection of illness, disability, healing, and creativity. I'm Nora Logan
and this is a podcast on how looking at death helps you live Today my guest is Georgia Fenwick. Georgia is an entrepreneur, writer, homeopath, energy practitioner, and mother to two girls. She founded a vintage shop in New York City in 2014 and then co founded the beloved London bakery, Papo's Bagels, in 2020.
She got sober at 22 in New York City and is coming up to her 12th sobriety anniversary. She's also my friend and writing partner and in this conversation she tells me her story. How and why she decided to get sober, what the impact has been on her creative life. How she was disconnected from her desire to write for a long time because she felt she needed to be, quote unquote, together, and finding her way back to herself [00:01:00] and her writing.
It's one of my favorite conversations I've had on the show because I just love the way Georgia's brain works, how she sees the world and shows up to her life, and also how much wisdom she's able to impart in the simplest of terms. Here's the conversation. Thank you so much for being here today, Georgia.
Georgia Fenwick: You're welcome. It's a pleasure.
Nora Logan: So I want to start with a little bit about your story.
Georgia Fenwick: Mm hmm.
Nora Logan: You got sober when you were 22, is that right?
Georgia Fenwick: Yeah, I was 22
Nora Logan: and since then you've started two businesses first a vintage shop in New York in the Lower East Side Yep, and then Papo's bagels.
Georgia Fenwick: Mm hmm,
Nora Logan: which you co founded with Papo Also known as Gabe Gomez.
And you've lived a lot of life in that time. Between getting sober and, and you're coming up to your 12th anniversary.
In about a month, yeah.
Georgia Fenwick: Couple weeks, yeah. And I've really, I've been wanting to speak to you for a long time for [00:02:00] so many reasons.
First, because I really believe that founding businesses are some of the most creative endeavors that you can do , and you've also had two kids and you're also a really brilliant writer. And I just think of you as someone who has creativity kind of coursing through your veins. And so there's all of that.
But also when I first started So, Life Wants You Dead. And was thinking about the show and the kind of conversations I want to have. It's really important to me to have conversations about addiction and alcoholism because it's an illness and it's a very serious illness that can result in death. And I think through the course of history and the research that we have now, there's, it's so much more accepted that, that it is an illness and we have so many statistics about it being an illness.
But I think it's a really misunderstood illness and one that benefits from having [00:03:00] really honest conversations about it. So with all of that said, can you tell me a bit about your story and how you got sober? Woo! Um, You know, I grew up in an environment where Oh god, I think I'm gonna cry already.
Tears are welcome here. I know. Um. And you can take your time.
Um. God, it's so emotional. Mm.
Um. I grew up in an environment where it was like normal to be an addict or an alcoholic and it wasn't [00:04:00] even like seen as that, right? It wasn't like, oh, everyone is an addict or an alcoholic. It was just this is just how we do life. Um, and this behavior is normal. So I actually would look at people that didn't have addiction.
And think that the way that they lived was abnormal and really boring. Um, and so it's interesting that you talk about it being really misunderstood. Um, because when I got sober at 22, it felt very dramatic. Like I felt like I was like being a drama queen. That there was like no way that my life could be that bad.
Or that I could be close to a death, whether that was like a spiritual death or an emotional death or a physical death and,
and so yeah, it was just like this [00:05:00] thing that was entirely normal. Um, and I kind of loved it. And then it was obviously fun for a while, like when you're a teenager, it's fun, drinking is fun, but I always drank in a way that was incredibly dangerous. And I don't think I knew how dangerous it was at the time.
So in hindsight, when I'm 34. And have been sober for almost 13 years and I'm raising two girls, you know, who I know are going to end up drinking. Probably. I mean, it's kind of just like, you know, life, right? Yeah. Um, I look back at like all of the things or the way, you know, all of the incidences or the way that I felt about myself or just the life that I had when I was drinking and it freaks me out.
I'm like, [00:06:00] that is fucking terrifying. Mm hmm. Um, and I was actually texting with a friend this morning,
who's also sober, and we were kind of talking about, the miracles of life that happen, and it doesn't it doesn't always make sense, right? The story of like, how you get sober doesn't, it doesn't always make sense. And so I was, I was messaging her and I was like, you know, all of these like, miracles have happened.
And I was like, you know, it's a miracle that I made it home alive from a night out of drinking, like, falling down all over the road, or even crossing the street, or like, walking from midtown in New York to downtown. As like, a sixteen year old girl. Bleeding every blackout. That's a miracle.[00:07:00]
And, um, and so it was very normal for me. And then, um, I guess it was a year before I got sober, I watched my mum get sober. And, um, we weren't living together at the time, but I just remember watching how her life on the inside changed. It wasn't even really that, like anything on the outside had necessarily changed, but like I remember watching her eyes clear up.
Mm. There wasn't that kind of fogginess behind her eyes anymore she was so bright and then. I remember noticing how she just had this, like, ease about her, this, ability to really face life on life's terms, and that she was clear, and present, and loving, [00:08:00] and You know, all of the anger and the resentment and the hatred had like dissipated from her being.
And I remember just thinking like, wow, that's incredible. And you know, simultaneously, I was also happened to be in a kind of social circle with a bunch of guys who are a little bit older than me who were also sober. And um, You know, one day, one of them basically just pulled me to the side and was like, Essentially, like, I can see the pain in your eyes because I would just be, like, sobbing.
And he was like, you know, I got sober when I was around your age. And then he just told me his story and I was like, wow. And so it was like witnessing all of these other people in my life. choose a different path and make a different choice. And before those [00:09:00] moments, I didn't know that there was another choice to choose or like another path to go down.
Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. And there's always those angels on the path, I think, in any life. And seeing, seeing other people, the brightness that you described behind your mum's eyes, it's like You could see that, even if you didn't know it yet, potentially for yourself. Right. And also the miracles. I think it's, it, I don't know, people do talk about it, but like, the miracle of being protected throughout all these really dangerous situations that you put yourself in.
Right. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. I've never heard you you've never told me your story in that way. And, um, you know, as your friend, [00:10:00] it's really humbling to hear it. And I became friends with you, sort of, I guess. Like halfway through your sobriety, or less than, and so I've only ever known you, in recovery and Lucky you.
And, and to, to hear that part of your story and how young you were, it's, um, and how like the gifts that you've received of your recovery is really, um, it, it feels very I don't want to say inspiring, it just feels so, um,
It feels like a, a, a true gift to have you as you are in this incarnation right now. Um, and for everything you've been through. And, you've shared with me before that you've always written. You've always been a writer. , and I have the pleasure of getting to write with you on a project that we're working on right [00:11:00] now.
And I'm curious about the role of before you were sober of, and whether substances had, um, had any relation to your creative process when you were younger and whether it was something something that you were conscious of or that you used to feel more creative and also what it's like now.
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I, um, I think I've always been very creative, obviously since I was like a kid. And I always found, like, comfort in writing. And so I remember when I was like 14 or 15, I was like, I'm gonna write a book, you know, about my life or whatever. Um.
So much life. I wish I could find it. At 15, I think you already had lived quite a bit of life. I mean, I don't know where it is anymore because like, you know, I don't, there wasn't an [00:12:00] iCloud back then. But, um, I don't know. I probably wrote like three pages. Um, I loved writing and I also loved painting. So I would like go out and get wasted and then come home and have like, cigarettes, I could, I could smoke at my house growing up, so I would like have cigarettes and like drinks and like get out like a canvas and like paint and, and, um, and write and drink and I thought it was great.
I thought it was amazing. Yeah. Um, I definitely never thought that it would be something, that I could make money from or be successful from. It was more just like an outlet for me to like really process all of these very deep emotions that I had. And then um, when I got sober I was [00:13:00] writing all the time.
Like I would take out like Post it notes with me or like little pieces of paper and, and a pen. I never wrote on like a laptop or anything. Actually, I did write on a laptop, but I would like take out these little like pieces of paper. You don't need to use a quill. Yeah. Take out these pieces of paper and I would just sit and write and I had like all these stories and like thoughts come to my mind and in my first year in recovery, I wrote this like very dark story about essentially this like very hopeless young man in New York who fell in love with a hopeless young woman.
It was a romance. A very dark romance. And um, and you know, I was like so fucked up when I stopped drinking. I was like a nutcase. And, [00:14:00] and so I would write and write and write, and then as I would get more sobriety under my belt, I was trying to live life in such like a functional way, and I was trying to be really functional, that I really shut down a lot of my creativity because it felt too dark.
It felt like, oh, the these parts of you shouldn't come out because you don't drink now. You're trying to kind of like live a life that's much more functional. We don't act out. You're together. You're, you're showing up for your life. We're not dark.
Yeah, we're living in the light. Yeah, I can't be having these kind of reckless relationships. I can't be having these like reckless thoughts. And so I really, shut down that side of myself. And then, [00:15:00] especially when I became a mother. And how old were you when you became a mum? I was 25 when I got pregnant.
Um, so it was really just like a few years after I had got sober. And when I became a mother even more so I was like I can't, I definitely can't have these thoughts now. You know, I definitely can't have this. Um, and then Uh, I kind of had like an awakening. I guess. A spiritual awakening. A spiritual awakening.
Um. Tell me more about it. How long was my spiritual awakening ago? Um. I guess. A year and a half ago. I also want to mention that I didn't say at the beginning. Yes. But I'll say it in your intro. That you're also a healer. You're a Reiki healer and homeopath and, um, I like to [00:16:00] help others heal themselves.
Yeah. I always feel uncomfortable with the word healer. I hate the word healer. I don't want to take that. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's too much responsibility. First of all, it's a lot. It's like you support others in their, in their healing. Exactly. So a year and a half ago. So a year and a half ago. I had a spiritual awakening.
I kind of had this emotional rock bottom. And I suddenly was like, who the fuck am I? Like, who am I? What's happened? I was like really dark and really in like such a self deprecating dangerous place in my life. Then I got sober and then I tried to like put my life together in this like nice little package and tie a bow on it and be like I'm fine, I'm great.
And then I was like I don't know who I am and [00:17:00] so I went through all of these kind of like big realizations in my life and I started writing again. Um, and I wasn't writing for other people. I wasn't writing for Instagram. I wasn't writing because I wanted a book. I wasn't writing for anything, right?
I was writing for myself. And it felt so good to just be like, oh, I can be my full self. I can be a mother. and have dark thoughts or I can be sober and 33 and be like a little reckless. Like I can encompass my full self, you know? Um, and so it was kind of like this amazing time in my life where I was able to bring my [00:18:00] 19, 20 year old self.
Together with my 33 year old self and be like, oh I can be all of these things and that's okay Yeah, and bring her back into the fold and like the all the parts of you. She was great. Yeah, you know Yeah, she sounds like a really fun. She was brave. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like courageous and every every stage of Like I said, I didn't know you but every stage of your life from your 20s, being a teenager to your 20s to now you've done so many brave things and you continue to start things and travel and change and become a mother at 25, which is really young.
Yes. I do do a lot of brave things I love it. Yeah. I'm like what's next? Let's do the next brave thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, There's, for me [00:19:00] with in relation to my own writing, I found for myself that my sobriety, though, I want to be clear that I'm not sober in recovery, and People who listen to this podcast know why, with, you know, I lost my liver.
And, and Georgia, just as a side note, like, remind me of all the things that I can't do. Which includes chewing gum. No chewing gum, no having to eat platters for two at Mangal. No, no, uh, not too many chips.
Um, but it's, it's given me this kind of fountain of ideas that I have access to, um, that I also had when I was drinking and, and doing drugs, but back then it, it really felt, it felt a bit duller and, and I had less kind of like need to, to get things out, like what you just described with, with [00:20:00] writing.
And it's also this experience of feeling like sometimes it's hard to hold on to what's coming in. And like I just said, I've witnessed you have a million creative ideas and you really run with them or you just kind of have them ticking away in the background. Um, I'm curious about how you do that for yourself.
How you like the spiritual awakening that you just. mentioned in the, the need to write and bring all those parts of yourself together, but then also like all these other ideas that you have, and then you really just go for it. How do you, how do you do that? Because I think for a lot of people, it's like they have the idea, but they don't always follow through with it.
How do I execute ideas?
I just think I mean, it sounds a little silly, but I just think I am an executor. Yeah. Uh, I'm like, to be honest. [00:21:00] Um. I'm just a doer. I kind of am. I'm just a doer. And I think that, I think that there are, there are plus sides to that and there are downsides to that. I don't, I, I don't really think about things a lot before I do them.
I do. I do and I don't. I,
okay, for example, a lot of people take courses, right? Yeah. If someone wants, I have taken my fair share, but if someone wants to, I don't know. Um, become a script writer. They might go and take a course on script writing. If someone starts a business, they might take a course on accounting. That stuff makes me feel so afraid.
And like I would never, I would never do anything like that. I'm so afraid of doing things [00:22:00] in a logical way. I guess that's like a logical way. It kind of makes sense to most human beings. It's like, oh, I want to do this thing. I'm going to go and learn how to do it and then I'm going to do it. Um, that really freaks me out. And so if I was to do that, I would never do my idea. Yeah. You know, it's like, we're writing together and it's like, I don't want to know about the process.
Yeah. Of any of that. Like, yeah. Well, yeah. And I mean, I'll say that the other day we were working on, uh, on a scene that we were writing and I took out a book that I have. And exactly. And I wanted to like read to you parts of this book and you were like, absolutely not, don't do it. And then we came to a nice resolution of like doing it a little bit, but I can, I understand and it's, it's helpful for me as your creative partner in, in this thing we're working on to just do it, because I very easily [00:23:00] get stuck in the weeds of needing to look out. I think what it is, is like looking outside of myself for the wisdom that I don't think I already have. And what I see you doing is just kind of tapping into your inner wisdom around things and learning as you go. Yes, I'm an intuitive learner.
So like, for example, with the bagel business, um, you know, uh, yes, I've worked in hospitality. in front of house. I don't know anything about kitchens. I don't know anything about baking. I don't know anything about cooking. I don't know anything about bookkeeping. I don't know how to be a manager. I didn't know anything about wholesale. I learnt all of these things on the spot. Like I remember our first wholesale customer called one day and the guy's like, We want to buy your bagels wholesale. And I was like, okay, cool. And he was like, what's your price? And I, I didn't know how to decide what a wholesale price is in comparison to a retail price.
And I'm like upstairs in my [00:24:00] bedroom, the kids are downstairs, and I just made up a price in my head. And five years later, that's still our price. My worst enemy is fear, as it is for a lot of us, and I almost feel like the more knowledge I have about how an industry works or how like a system works, the more I feel like the odds are against me and the more fear I have and so it's like I just don't want to know anything.
I just want to show up and like do this intuitively. And I've managed to kind of grow a pretty great business. You really have, yeah. Doing that, um, and it just, it just works for me. Yeah, and I think that's so, I think it's helpful for me to hear it and also witness you doing it in real time. But for people to hear that, whether they're starting a business or deciding to write something or any type of creative endeavor, because we, we [00:25:00] really do learn by doing and there's only so many.
Of course it's useful to read books and to, to learn about the thing you're doing, but it, it can really stop people in their tracks. It does. It freaks me out. Yeah. Um, and it makes me feel like I don't know any of this. I'm not a professional. I can't do this. I'll never be able to do it. I'm so stupid for thinking that I was able to do it.
You know? I think a lot about sharing work and the vulnerability of that. And it's something that you and I have spoken a lot about. How do you move through that with the really vulnerable thing of putting work out there? I text you and I say, I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. This is horrible. This is horrible. I want to die. I want to die. I want to die. I want to die. Yeah. And then you say, it's going to be okay. [00:26:00] This feels like such a setup. I was setting, setting you up to give me some flowers. It's not.
You're like, oh, you moved through your fear because of me. Um, and then I post it. Okay, so, I'm obviously, I have like zero following on social media. Which is cozy, because it's like everyone that does follow me probably loves me. Or at least likes me, you know, a little bit. I'd like to think.
And so, when I started writing again a year and a half ago, I was like, oh, I just want to share. I don't want to share. Because I want people to know what I'm doing, but I want to share because it feels so good to get this stuff out. Um, and social media is obviously a great way to do that. And so, I remember like the first time it was so scary.
And it, it [00:27:00] continues to be scary. I still don't find it easy. But, I've become more in the habit of just, I, I don't reread my work. So normally the way that I write, Again, like, I think this goes back to me just being a doer. Is I'll write something, and then like, I don't go back and edit that thing. I don't go back and re read the thing.
I literally just copy and paste it, and then post it. And then freak out, and then text you. And then you reassure me that I will survive. Um, and I'm not gonna die from posting something on Instagram. And then, most of the time people are so sweet. Yeah. I mean, sometimes they text me and they say like, Are you okay?
Are you going through a hard time? And I'm like, No. I'm just being real, okay? And I'm just like, I'm fine. I'm just telling the truth. I'm just a [00:28:00] Cancer Scorpio rising. I'm a little dark. Deal with it. Well, I didn't know that you didn't reread your work and I, um I have a, I have an excerpt of one of your pieces that I wanted to read today.
How do you feel? Oh, God.
Because something that we both share is That's hell. It's so beautiful, your writing. Where did you get this from? From your Instagram. Okay, fine. We share, uh, one of the many things that we share in common is this endless question of home. You grew up in New York and consider it home, and it is home. You're more of a New Yorker than I am.
But you're also from London, and I grew up in London and consider it home, but I'm also from New York. , more of a Londoner than I am . And I love London a lot more than, than New York. [00:29:00] And, and you love New York a lot more than London . And you live in New York? And I live in London. Yeah. And it's great. It's great.
Brutal. Um, and last year you wrote this piece that really spoke straight to my soul. Mm-hmm. Would you read it as much as you feel comfortable? Yeah, you want me to read it? Yeah. Okay.
I am bosomed between two homes. One is quiet and makes me want to whisper on the street when I walk home at night. Why do I keep crying? The period Scorpio period full moon. Yeah, 2025 logical placements. January hell. Okay. I am bosomed between two homes. One is quiet and makes me want to whisper on the street when I walk home at night.
So I don't take up too much space. The other one lets me know that I am just a singular body rushing around an ocean of people getting pushed this way and that way [00:30:00] like a float board that's been taken over by the tide. One is still, so still, in fact, I feel like I'm looking out the window at a painting.
The only sign of life, sometimes, is the rain or wind, and while that happens quite often. Bats fly above my head, there, and sometimes the only noise is a dog incessantly barking, or my neighbor's footsteps, which feel like they're inside my apartment. My other home is so loud, I once heard an old friend from high school drunkenly break up with her boyfriend outside my bedroom window in the early hours of the morning.
We hadn't spoken in years, but her voice was so familiar. I hear the garbage trucks. I hear people yelling just because. I feel the energy seep through the window into my bedroom in the morning, and my stomach fills with anxiety as quickly as I fill my cup with black coffee. In one home, you eat dry bread rolls stuffed with soggy bacon.
In the other, I'm relieved they add salt, pepper, ketchup, cheese, and eggs. [00:31:00] One home is filled with so much passiveness, I spend my life trying to figure out where I stand. They smiled at me politely with closed lips when we passed each other on the road. The other home, they won't shut up. We haven't seen each other in seven years, but they shout they still have the same number, and we should grab lunch while they continuously walk down the block.
Both feel like home, and sometimes neither feel like home. I am held between the abyss of both, like I am suspended, clinging on, in hopes one day, one will feel like home, and I'll forget about the other.
Thanks for reading. It's a big moment, for me. To read on a microphone. Thank you for doing it. You're welcome. So we're recording this in New York. You're here for the week. Luckily. And I'm wondering how you're feeling about the concept of home today. Oh God. I mean, I don't know. [00:32:00] It's a hard question. It's so funny because it's like, I just feel like your heart wants what your heart wants, you know, and I tried so hard to make London a home.
Like I think I really, really white knuckled my way through that. I've lived in several different areas and like on paper, I have a great life. Yeah. And you've laid down roots. I have community. My kids are in an amazing school. My kids are happy. Me and Gabe have an amazing business. We have incredible friends.
I am safe. I am loved. My family are there. It's great. Like, there are parks. There are trees. Um, but my soul and, like, my heart just don't [00:33:00] feel connected there. Mm hmm. And it's like, it's kind of unfortunate because logically it just makes great sense to stay where I am. Yeah. You know? It's like free healthcare.
Mm hmm. It's clean. Life is good. Life is easy. More or less, yeah. Um, but I just don't feel alive when I'm there, and it doesn't really make sense for this place to be my home for many reasons. Um, but my heart feels at home here. So, yeah. Do you feel more creatively inspired here? Way more.
Yeah. Way more. I feel much more, like alive, and the range of emotions and feelings I have when I'm here are much [00:34:00] larger, and when I'm in London I feel kind of, , I don't know, I don't want to sound dramatic, just a bit repressed, you know? Yeah. I feel numb. Yeah. Well, yeah. And even in that piece, you mentioned the passiveness of the culture, which is just, it just is part of being in the UK.
There's much more of a passiveness than there is in the big brash, uh, sort of at times over the top nature of being in the States and New York in particular, there's this directness, I guess. Yes. That exists here that doesn't exist there. And it can be, um, It can feel suffocating. It does feel suffocating.
Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly how it feels. Going [00:35:00] back to the feeling kind of tapped in creatively and this access to ideas that you have and when you started writing in earnest again a year and a half ago, I think it's an interesting conversation to have around substances in general and this, what feels to me a little bit like an antiquated idea that artists have artists use substances to create and Yes. Um, how, and there's that, you know, the 27 Club of people like Janice Joplin, who died so young and she was this incredible artist and so, and Amy Winehouse and all these people who, who died really young. And also just in general, the idea that you have to use something else outside of yourself to tap into
creativity. Um, Did you feel that way ever? And how do [00:36:00] you see it now in your creative life? Well, when I was drinking and then coming home to paint, as I mentioned earlier, or writing, it felt really what I thought was, like, really punk rock that I would be, like, getting fucked up and, like going home and putting brush to a canvas, you know?
I kind of loved feeling like a fuck up, and so I thought that the only way I could be creative was to be a fuck up. Mm hmm. I mean fuck up, you know what I mean to be like damaged and dark and and dangerous and living life on the edge and Living dangerously. Yeah, exactly. And so I felt like if I wasn't living dangerously, I couldn't be creative and and so I definitely felt like that and I definitely know, because I've spoken to a lot of other people who are artists in many [00:37:00] different forms who are afraid to get sober because they're afraid of not being able to write music anymore or whatever it is that they do.
And um, I definitely don't feel that way anymore. I know that I can be creative and not have to drink to do so. Um,
it's kind of like what I was saying earlier where it was like, just because I get sober doesn't mean that I need to shut the door on all these other kind of versions of myself. Or it doesn't mean that I need to like slam down everything. That may feel a bit reckless to me, or may feel a bit dangerous, or may feel like quote unquote wrong.
I'm [00:38:00] able to be all of these different things, right? Like, I'm able to be sober. I'm able to be a woman in my 30s. I'm able to be a mother. I'm also able to be creative. You know, I'm, I can have a dark side to me. I can also be functional. I can have desires. I can have fantasies. All of these things are able to exist in the same space.
Whereas, when I first got sober, I felt like it was, I felt like it was like one or the other. And so, I wasn't able to be creative for a long time in sobriety. Because I felt like it would be wrong to fantasize. Or wrong to have desires, or wrong to have [00:39:00] dark thoughts, or all of these things, you know? And, um, a lot of my writing could be seen as quite dark, I guess?
Or it's just, you know honest. I just see it as honest. It's just deep thoughts. But yeah, yeah. And I think that's why some people text me after saying, are you okay? Which people do with me too. And it's, and hearing you talk about all of that, I'm remembering when I, um When I first had my liver transplant and I was really like I was, it was like an early recovery situation in that my life completely changed and I had, I had I just had to like empty everything out and then kind of build back up from what felt like nothing at the time.
And I felt a real connection to my creativity. And also I really felt like I had to be like a good little sick girl and I had to [00:40:00] hold myself in a certain way and I had to be endlessly grateful for what I had received. And even if I don't really read anything I wrote back then, but at the times that I have, I cringe and also can see where I'm kind of lying in that.
I was trying to be as, as good as I could be to, um, to prove, I guess, to myself and to the outside world that I was okay and I was like getting my shit together. Um, and it's so much more. I think what I'm trying to say is that like with time and with your recovery it sounds like you've been able to just gain more access to the truth of what it is to be alive because you're writing really like it.
Every time I read something you write it, it connects me [00:41:00] into my own experience of being a human being and what that is for so many of us. And we need that because there's a lot of We move through the world and there's just like a lot of bullshit and it's, and it feels, um, inauthentic a lot of the time.
And, something that I've been able to get more confident in with my own work is like, this acknowledgement of what is actually going on for me and my body or for, you know, just my experience of being alive. Right. And I, and I think that takes time. It does. Yeah. It's also, like you said, it's like you,
I haven't been able to be creative and express myself, honestly, until I came to terms with the fact that It's okay for me to be [00:42:00] imperfect and to not carry shame around that. And just because I'm sober doesn't mean that I'm a perfect person. And that's, that's not what it has to mean. It means that I'm an addict and I'm an alcoholic and I, hit bottom, stopped drinking, stopped using drugs, and I don't do that, and it's like, I try and show up as best as I can, but it also doesn't mean that I need to walk around trying desperately to be like an angel, and just not acknowledging, like, the wholeness of who I actually am, you know?
Yeah. It's about wholeness. And just experiencing the full range of what it is to be human. Yeah. There's a lot of darkness that we are currently experiencing in the world. There really is. [00:43:00] I wanna talk a little bit about, you've already mentioned that you're a mother to two girls. And you write really beautifully about motherhood. There's something, I'm just going to read a little bit of something you wrote about motherhood. Okay. It's about you, but you talk a little bit about being a mum.
I spent my entire life waiting to grow up. To be in this magical moment of my 20s where I had long blonde hair, long legs, short skirts, sex appeal, and confidence. Then I got to my 20s and waited for all those things to arrive. The decade came and went. It was over. I mostly got sober, breastfed, gave birth, had sick all over me, and stopped wearing skirts and dresses for seven years.
Now I'm in my 30s. I can't wait to be in my 40s. It'll be the sexiest decade, I think, full of self worth. What about 34? When will the present day be enough? When will the present day me be enough? [00:44:00] In skirts or jeans? Sensually liberated or having a dog shit day? Will I think about the day I arrive at 40 for the next five and a half years?
When I'm in my 40s, will I wait for the day I turn 50? When I turn 50, will I dread each day that I grow older? Or will I enjoy each day? Being 34 in my sweatpants with my kids porridge smeared on my tight black top. Watching the women who say That with age came so much more self confidence.
And how exactly do I waste less time on the less confident side? How do I save my daughters from those years of always looking ahead? In hopes that with more years will come the self fulfillment they've always been looking for?
How has being a mum influenced your work and what you're doing in the world I actually think that becoming a mother hindered my creativity. Mm-hmm . [00:45:00] For a very long time. And I think that that's because I thought that if I was a mother, I wasn't allowed to be creative. I wasn't allowed to have desires, I wasn't allowed to be dark.
Sometimes I I wasn't allowed to wear miniskirts, I wasn't allowed to be sexual, I wasn't allowed to be sensual, I'm not allowed to do this, this, this, this, this and um, that was part of my big growth, um, a year and a half ago was like, no I can, I can be all of those things and also be a mother and I was so afraid about what everyone thought of me.
I was so afraid that if I wrote about that or anything else that I've written and I shared that, people would be like, oh, she's a terrible [00:46:00] mother or she's an unfit mother or she's too young to be a mother, or she can't, you know, she can't do those things. Um, and, it's funny because I would, I, I don't think about other mothers that way, or parents in general.
I would never look at someone and be like, oh wow, she's wearing a mini skirt when she picks her kids up from school. I actually would look at someone like that and be like, you are a badass. Your kids are so lucky to have a confident parent, whether that means they're wearing a miniskirt or baggy jeans or whatever, whatever they want to wear, right?
And, um, and I want to be like that. And so I think that it did hinder my creativity. And I'm still learning that I can be a writer, I [00:47:00] can be creative, I can write a sex scene. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and also, you having access to your self expression, whether that's in how you dress and wearing a miniskirt at the school gates or writing a sex scene, it, it's modeling something for your kids that you're free and you're able to, um, to live in a way that doesn't feel constricted, or is constricted by living in a patriarchy and the expectations that we have from others, but you're moving against that.
I'm really trying. Yeah. It's a daily reprieve. Yeah. And um it requires a lot of alone time. Like it requires a lot of time in my own company to remember who I am [00:48:00] outside of being a mother. And that I can do all of those things. Yeah. You wrote that thing of wearing leggings and sweatpants for seven years and, um, I think that's true for so many mothers.
Yeah, I mean it's comfortable. Yeah. And it makes sense, but it's also like I was like, I cannot be a sensual person anymore. Yeah. I'm not saying that you can't be sensual on leggings, but of course you can. But I personally don't feel very sensual in leggings. Yeah. And just self adornment in general, whatever that looks like for you.
I find that for myself, dressing up for myself exclusively and wearing things that make me feel good help me to live a more creative life. For sure. Yeah. It's an outlet. Yeah. Um, [00:49:00] so we have a few questions that we always ask our guests. Oh my goodness. I wasn't prepared for this. But, we'll see how it goes.
I keep saying as I've been recording new episodes, I keep being like, I'm going to get rid of these. But then I keep wanting to know the answers. Oh my goodness, okay. So much pressure. If you lived in a world that completely catered to your own, to your recovery process, I wouldn't, I don't want to say in the, I don't want to phrase the question if, if you, if you lived in a world that completely catered to your alcoholism.
I'm like, I wouldn't be an alcoholic and I could drink margaritas. But yeah, if you, if you lived in a world that completely catered to your recovery, what, what would that look like? Ooh, there would be a lot of community. That's something that's coming to mind.
That's a [00:50:00] very difficult question. I think community is a good one. A lot of community, um, a lot of sharing honesty, a lot of asking for help, like living in a world where it's normal and okay to say, I really can't do this right now. Or I'm having a hard time today. Can you please help me? Mm hmm. Living in a world where people were encouraged to be vulnerable, encouraged to lean on each other, and then, like, also have this two way street.
Mm hmm. Of receiving, right, which I think is actually really hard for a lot of people. Really hard. And giving back. Yeah. [00:51:00] Yeah. Reciprocity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think if we if we lived in a world where people learned, from childhood, how to receive, for that to be like a, just a standard thing that we, everybody learns how to do, it would look a lot different.
Yeah, I see that already in my eight year old. You know? Can you say a little bit more about that? She is already uncomfortable receiving, you know? It's like, I think a lot of us can receive things, like we can receive I was going to say money. I feel uncomfortable receiving money, but she could receive like TV time, but when it's like genuine love or, or a compliment, I can already, I can already [00:52:00] see how that's beginning to form in her, you know, that discomfort.
Yeah we learn that so young, so young. This is a, this is a funny one to ask you, because we talk a lot about this in our friendship of different phrases and sayings, but what's one phrase or saying that you always come back to?
I was about to say something so inappropriate.
What's one phrase or saying that you always come back to? To help me? Just something or a mantra that you like to have in your back pocket or, um, Any, it could be anything. I mean, there's so many. One day at a time. Don't take things personally. It's a classic. Don't think, take things personally. Don't take things personally.
Such a good one. It's not personal. Yeah, I learned that from [00:53:00] you. It's not personal. Also, this is a great one. And I might be saying it wrong, but it goes along the lines of, Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said right now? You know? Yeah. Sometimes I just need to Zip the lip.
I need to. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Okay, and then finally, what's one thing you do to keep yourself creative each day? Ooh. I just write, you know? Yeah. I just write. I think a lot of people feel bewildered by that, of like someone who can show up and write each day. Is there anything that you do to, you just, do you just show up and, and, like just give me a little bit more.
Okay, I got an app on my phone, which is a notes app, but it's locked. And I love that, [00:54:00] because I'm so paranoid, I'm always like, if someone stole my phone, they'd read all my notes and see that I was like listening to Shania Twain, and I'd be embarrassed. So, I got the Locked Notes app, um, and I just open it up and I just write whatever comes to my head.
It's normally first thing in the morning. And then it's like, I don't have the shame that someone's gonna read it, I can write whatever I want, and it could be like, three minutes. Yeah. No time restraints either, that's good. No, it's just like, I could just literally write anything, like, I woke up in such a bad mood, I'm gonna eat a bowl of cereal.
Mm hmm. Fuck you. Yeah. Sorry. You know? Yeah, and then I call it a day. If you show up to that every single day in a year's time. You have no idea what You have a novel. Yeah, exactly. Autobiography. Yeah. [00:55:00] Georgia, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. Such a pleasure to have you. Sorry I cried so much.
Oh, it's my favorite. That was our show So, Life Wants You Dead. This episode was made with support from Stephanie MoDavis and Ruby Shah. Our illustrations are by Ronaé Fagon. If you like what you hear, please subscribe and Leave us a review, rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
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