EP17 → Carolina Barlow on Deepening Empathy and Making it Funny
In this episode, Nora speaks to writer and producer Carolina Barlow about her life-altering car accident at the age of 28. Nora and Carolina discuss the commonalities in what they've been through, the role of humour in recovering from her accident, and the depth of empathy gained through having a "before and after," whether that's an accident, illness, or loss. Carolina also talks about the importance of radical care in society and how much easier it was for her to write about what happened with some distance.
Carolina is currently a staff writer on the upcoming Will Ferrell series THE GOLF WAR, for Netflix. Prior to that she was a producer, writer, and co-host of the Ron Burgundy Podcast as well as the True Romance Podcast with iHeart Media. She is developing an original project with Apatow Productions and recently developed a project with FX with Lisa Harrison attached to produce. Additionally, she has co-produced the Netflix documentary WILL & HARPER and has previously worked with Leslye Headland. She is developing FRANKENSTEIN IS A FRIEND with Will and Mosaic Films.
Find Carolina's work here.
TRANSCRIPT
Carolina Barlow
Nora Logan: [00:00:00] This is So, Life Wants You Dead, a show that explores the intersection of illness, disability, healing, and creativity.
I'm Nora Logan and this is a podcast on how looking at death helps you live. Today my guest is writer and producer Carolina Barlow. Carolina is currently a staff writer on the upcoming Will Ferrell series The Golf War for Netflix. Prior to that she was a producer, writer, and co host of the Ron Burgundy Podcast, as well as the True Romance Podcast with iHeart Media.
She's developing an original project with Apatow Productions, and recently developed a project with FX with Lisa Harrison attached to produce. She also co-produced the Netflix documentary, Will & Harper, and previously worked with Leslye Headland. She's developing [00:01:00] Frankenstein Is A Friend with Will and Mosaic Films.
On today's episode, Carolina shares her story of having a life altering car accident at the age of 28. We talk about her experience with near death, how traumatic experiences can deepen one's empathy, and how useful humor can be to help cope with pain. She also writes a brilliant and hilarious Substack
in which he tells the story of her accident amongst other things, which I reference on the show because I'm such a big fan of it. It's worth checking out. Here's the conversation. I'm welcome to So, Life Wants You Dead Carolina. Thank you for being here today
Carolina Barlow: Thank you for having me. It's so exciting to be here. I've been looking forward to this all week
Nora Logan: So before we start I just want to say that. Um, we have this unique shared experience that we knew each other as children. Yes. I, I remember you [00:02:00] as, I guess you must've been, the last time I saw you before we got reconnected was, um, you must've been seven.
I would say. Yeah. I was really young. Um, and I'm a few years older than you. And I, I, then we didn't see each other and speak for like 25 years. And then through a wonderful mutual friend, we got reconnected. Our friend Dani. And, uh, and I just love that because it's this magical way that sometimes happens in life where you just like completely, I never forgot about you because I really loved you and your sister, um, and had so many fun times with you but then in this other completely circuitous way we got reconnected and I just wanted to say that at the top because it's such a fun way that we know each other.
Carolina Barlow: I know, it's really, it really is magical and I loved you, I loved your mother, um, we spent time in your mother's apartment in [00:03:00] London which was just one of the best trips ever and I remember, you know, it's so, Interesting how rare it is for a child to feel comfortable with another adult that isn't their parent.
And I remember just watching a game show with your mother and just having the best time. And it was just me and her in her London apartment watching TV together. And it just speaks to what a great person she is that I just felt so at home. Um, but yeah, you were I mean, it's so funny because when you're a few years older than someone when you're a kid and might as well be 10 because they just seem like the I just thought you were the most glamorous, coolest girl ever.
And that I was I felt so lucky to be able to hang out. But we had Yeah, we had fun. Oh, that's so nice.
Nora Logan: I actually completely forgot that you came to London, um, but now it's all coming back to me. And yeah, it's, it is, it is really funny because I feel so, uh, much like we're of the same generation, which we are now when I'm, when I speak to you and [00:04:00] when, when I read your work.
Um, yeah. But then, but at that time, I remember feeling like you were this little kid and Ah,
Carolina Barlow: Yes, yes, and you were this, you might as well have been a teenager to me, just, I just thought you were so cool. Um, and still do, which is, I was so excited to do your podcast. Yeah, I
Nora Logan: feel the same way about you. So I wanted to invite you on the show because, uh, you were in an accident when you were 28 years old, a car accident.
Um, and it was this really serious thing that happened in your young life. Can you tell me a bit about how it happened and that story?
Carolina Barlow: Yes, I, um, I mean, I also just want to say it's so interesting telling the story now because I feel so, there's some distance from it and I don't know about you in terms of your health crisis, but for me for so long it was so hard to tell the story because it felt so near, um, but yeah, that's just, an aspect of healing that doesn't [00:05:00] seem like it'll happen for a really long time, and then suddenly it does.
But, um yeah, when I was 20, I was 28, I was 27, and it was April 12th, I want to say, and I was going on a work trip to Orange County for this political event with my boss, and I had been working with him for three years, so we had done hundreds of these work trips, and it was like 11 p. m., um, and I was, you know, just falling asleep in the back of the car, and I had a weird day, I mean, it's so spooky, I just felt weird, I felt off, and then we got rear ended, and at first, for the first second, it seemed fine, but I remember the car just jolting, and if you've ever been rear ended, it always is a shock, but this felt even a bigger shock because we were on the carpool lane on the freeway, and so I just remember looking out the window and suddenly the car was in the air for a second, and we all [00:06:00] went, oh, you know, kind of jokingly, and then all of a sudden the car flipped to its left side, and it didn't, the scary part was, that would have been bad enough, but the car skidded, so it wouldn't stop moving.
And, yeah, it was just, um, it was, thank God you just don't feel pain when you're in that much shock, um, because it skidded for a while, um, and ended up taking some of my, um, it split my fingers in half, when the car finally stopped, I looked down and my fingers, my middle finger and my index finger were both cut in half, and I was just holding on to them, and, um, it took a part of my shoulder bone, um, and yeah, just things that you can't comprehend that you went through, um, and I was just very, um, calm while it was happening.
But yeah, I had to kick through a window to get out of the car and I was [00:07:00] stuck for a while and it took me a while to realize the extent of my injuries and it was only when I was in the ambulance and I could tell the paramedics were really concerned about my arm that I realized, oh my gosh, I'm I said, am I going to lose my arm?
And no one definitively said, no, no, no, no, you're fine,
which
you expect. And
Nora Logan: so you want that in that moment, you want that reassurance. You want someone to be like, yeah, yeah, you're keeping it. Yeah.
Carolina Barlow: And it's also an hour ago, I was completely healthy and fine and normal. So what? No, nothing this extreme can happen this quickly.
You know, it just goes against your logic. And, I was lucky enough to have the accident really close to a trauma hospital where there were surgeons there working that night, you know, I, I had so many doctors say for an unlucky person, you were very lucky and again, that's something that when you're
left shoulder is immobilized and you have crazy [00:08:00] scars all over your body, you don't ever feel lucky. So even people saying that, you're like, no, that's not, I'm, I'm purely unlucky. But again, with time, with distance from the accident, I really do see the luck and just the blessings and how worse it could have gone and all of the above, you know?
Um, so yeah, I went through, gosh, I was in the ICU. I went through something like. I think the first month after my accident, I went through about 13 surgeries and I've gone through, now I've had probably about 20 surgeries, um, just over the years, but, you know, surgeries range, I'm about to have a surgery on Monday, um, surgeries, surgeries range, I'm about to have a surgery on Monday, um, surgeries.
range from, you know, the surgery I'm having on Monday. It's just a scar revision surgery. It should be an hour. I'm looking forward to it because I love being under anesthesia. It's like my favorite. I don't drink. So it's my favorite thing.
Nora Logan: Yeah, it's I, I don't drink either. And I, [00:09:00] I think it was in. One of your, one of your posts, you, your Substack, which we'll talk about in a minute, but, um, you were writing about loving going under general anesthetic.
And I was like, gosh, I wish I could have a surgery sometime when I was reading it. I was like, I would love a little general right now.
Carolina Barlow: Oh, the best. I, I, my favorite is they give you a little bit, they call it like a margarita or something, the nurses, they give you a little bit of something as you're going wheel, getting wheeled into surgery.
And once I get to the hospital in anticipation of these surgeries, I'm just waiting for that. Like, I'm just, I'm giddy, almost. And I don't even, I don't crave alcohol or anything. I really don't miss it. Um, I stopped drinking when I was 20 years old, so it's been a while, but um, but yeah, when I get to have, I just literally found out yesterday that I was going to have a surgery on Monday and I've just been like on cloud nine, which is just
Nora Logan: Something to look forward to in [00:10:00] these in these bleak times.
Carolina Barlow: Exactly. I just would ego death. I can't wait. Um yeah. So I was it was life changing I, I really, it's the before and after, um, you know, someone was recently talking about the fires here in California.
I was reading a celebrity post about losing a part of her property. And, and she was saying, you know, this delineates the before and after of my life. And I knew exactly what she was talking about, which is there's always going to be a before and there's always going to be an after. And those are going to be two different people, you know, because I don't think you believe that bad things happen to you until they do.
Nora Logan: No. And I think it's, it is like for me and I'm curious how you feel. I, I remembered that girl. I was the same age as you were when I had my, uh, health crisis and, and it was very emergency in a similar way. And I was in total shock. And I had a similar thing where, um, people kept telling me how lucky I [00:11:00] was to have a second chance at life in the transplant community, that's a big thing. And I also felt really unlucky and there had to be a death, uh, a physical death of my old liver, but a metaphorical death of who that person was. And it really is in my mind, a before and after of who I was and who I then had to change into become, build myself up again from.
Um, and I think when you have, especially when you're young, 'cause you think you're so, mm-hmm . invincible. I really didn't. Yeah. I like really felt like I could do anything and nothing would happen to me. Um, that, that, death becomes so much more, um, that, that change and that delineation is so much more stark. Was that true for you?
Carolina Barlow: Yeah yeah, it really is. And it's changed how I go [00:12:00] through life. I used to be this really, um, I used to ski a lot as a kid, and I was this daredevil. I just, I would ski at night with friends, which is crazy to me now.
Nora Logan: Yeah.
Carolina Barlow: And now, after going through an accident, I think how did I ever ski?
It is terrifying. You get a brain injury. There's people who die skiing all the time. They get paralyzed. Like, I just don't understand how I used to be so flippant about survival or, and it comes from, you know, being young and believing I'll text this one person while I'm driving. I'm not going to get hurt. You know I was, I was dictating emails on the freeway, which now I see how selfish and crazy that is. But at the time I thought, no, I'm not, I'm not gonna hurt anyone. No one's gonna hurt me, you really believe you will never be in either position. And so it's not just, you know, I have a saying now when I drive, which is like, I'm not gonna hurt anyone and I'm not gonna [00:13:00] hurt myself.
And I say that to calm myself down. And I am a good driver and I'm a very safe driver, um, because of what I went through. But you just see all these possibilities of harm and, um, I think another thing that you go through, which I really think is a silver lining, is that, and I'm sure a part of the reason for your podcast is you can feel, um, your empathy bone gets stronger, you know, you suddenly You hear something horrible happen to someone and you think, oh my God, like, what can I do to help?
Because I, I can only imagine how scary that is, how alone you must feel, you know, navigating a hospital system. I, I have a whole new appreciation for that, being in the hospital at all. So it connects you to the rest of the world in a way that I think is very valuable.
Nora Logan: Mm hmm.
Carolina Barlow: And when you hear about horrible things happening, you can see it from an individual point of view, rather than just, oh, [00:14:00] that area is suffering.
Nora Logan: Yeah.
Carolina Barlow: Um, so I think, there are positives to, and I, I, I'm interested to hear your experience, but I, I do believe that I would never say I'm glad that the accident happened because I went through so much pain, the people I loved went through so much pain, and I won't know what my life would have looked like otherwise, but, um, but I'm grateful, I like the person I am with this new empathy, this new level of empathy and this new interest in showing up for people rather than just thinking, Oh, you know, bad things happen to other people and, um, that doesn't really have anything to do with me.
Now I can see how interconnected we all are and how much we, again, I don't know about yourself, but so many people that you don't expect reach out to you in those moments and it means so much, especially when it's not flippant, when it's really specific, I would have [00:15:00] random strangers who would just say, you know, I've been through something like this and you're going to get through it.
And I would hold on to that like a life raft, it was very stabilizing to just for, for moments at a time, at least.
Nora Logan: Yeah. I, I, I mean, I felt exactly the same way. I think it, uh, It, I had this, this, these like moments of kind of like spiritual awakenings throughout my time in the hospital and I felt very open and, and so grateful for what was, even as it was happening, even through multiple surgeries and pain, I felt, um, really grateful.
And then as I, I think as I came more back into my body, I felt, um, it was less clear to me. Like the gratitude piece was less clear.
Carolina Barlow: Oh, a hundred percent.
Nora Logan: Cause it was like, oh, now I have to actually figure out how to live in this way. But in a global sense, now I, I'm [00:16:00] so grateful for what happened because, um, even though I have difficult days and I have to deal with any number of things connected to my condition, uh, it is, it has created deeper empathy in me and I think what it did for me is connect me to the heartbreak of the world in a way that like what you were, what you were just describing with being rather than thinking, "Oh, that's just that area that's affected." You do think about it in, in, in an individual sense and not in a like Pollyana type way, although I have kind of like done that a little bit, and it's been 10 years now since my transplant, like I've definitely gone in that direction, but more in like a real, like I, I, I, I know what it is to have my heart broken in a a way that changed my entire life, uh, so yeah, I'm um, I'm with you.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, it's really [00:17:00] interesting, I know what you mean too, where the gratitude ebbs, I was in the hospital grateful to be alive and then I, I really thought I was gonna leave fixed. You know, I really didn't think that I was going to leave with so much recovery ahead of me. And so, I definitely just started feeling very angry when I got home from the hospital, that my life was going to be different. I hated it.
Nora Logan: Yeah. And wanting things to kind of go back to how they were. Yeah. Well, in your Substack, which everyone should read, I'll put it in the show notes, but you write about how your story elicits this look of horror, um, on people's faces, and sometimes pity, and I'm also familiar with these looks.
I'm curious, you talk about having more of an empathy, just naturally with that being said, how do you react to those looks and that kind of let's face it, [00:18:00] sometimes like really kind of stupidity in a way on people's faces or just like people not knowing how to react.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I think that's it. People don't know how to react. And again, I think I get so excited to meet people who understand, like when you reached out to me, I was like, Oh my, I, you know, I almost, I, and not that I'm happy that anyone has experienced the same levels of pain, but I feel excited for a deep connection that you do not share with people who haven't experienced something like this or haven't had a family member experience something like this. Um, my sister slept next to my bed for so much of the accident and she definitely has a new appreciation for people who go through pain as well. But, but yeah, how do I react? I think it still bothers me, to be honest, because I don't like feeling [00:19:00] like the subject of shock, or, yeah, I don't like feeling like, um, this poor person and I think, um, people can't believe that I'm still having surgeries and what I want to say is, yeah, it really messed me up. I don't know what else to tell you, but, um, so yeah, it's still kind of bothers me when people act so horrified, but I think again the silver lining to that is that when people tell me, you know, oh my wife just got diagnosed with this, or, oh, this person just went through an accident, or for instance, recently, like, now it's, you know, my home just got burned down, which is what's happening to it plenty of friends of mine in L. A. and, and I have a new appreciation for, okay, you're feeling alone, you're angry that the world is moving on without recognition every day of the pain you're going through, and, um, you're [00:20:00] overwhelmed in a way that so many people will never have to be. And I think that, um, I'm not scared of another person's grief in the way that I think some people have been scared of mine.
So I think that's a positive. But yeah, it's so funny. I'm, um, preparing to go on a first date soon and I'm like, I'm already in anticipation of, oh my God, they're going to ask me about the accident and it's such a big part of my life. I'm going to have to tell them and that I'm still getting surgeries and they're going to be horrified.
You know, I sort of played out. So still not a fan, but I, I understand. And I have a little bit, I'm a little bit gentler with people about it. I used to be really angry with them and now I'm just kind of like, of course you don't know how to respond. It's a big thing to respond to. I don't know.
Nora Logan: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. Like the people. People just don't know how to respond to grief,
Carolina Barlow: right?
Nora Logan: And have a really hard time with knowing what to say or how to be. And it brings up so much for them about what [00:21:00] maybe they're afraid about. And we live in this really reactionary, fast paced world where, you know, the LA fires were only a couple of weeks ago and it's, it's still very present, but you go on social media and there's like, it, it doesn't feel like in my world, people have moved on because I, I'm connected to a lot of people in LA, but it does, there is this sort of like, okay, now there's the next crisis.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, yeah, we're upset about, you know, the inauguration now, which is totally fair and understandable, and we should all be upset about it, but, but there is this, you're right, this, there's always going to be something new to be shocked and horrified by, unfortunately. And um, I can understand feeling, I, I, I remember feeling left in the dust a little bit with my accident and I can understand anyone feeling that way in this world if something bad happened to them. And I think that's something social media, I mean, it's so interesting to me when people [00:22:00] put their injuries on social media because I was so scared of people pitying me that I, you know, I just started sharing six and a half, almost seven years after the accident about my accident and I was now I'll see people who are having like surgeries posts like back in the hospital today or something like that.
And I'm like, Oh my God, I could never because I was so scared of you thinking I would that I was a victim, which of course I was, but I understand that now more so because it's like, yes, you're alone. You want people to remember that you're going through something. You need recognition of your pain. Like I understand all of, um, those motives more.
Nora Logan: Yeah. There's something, it's so interesting because that's, I feel like, Everybody's different, but your impulse to do that was so wise. I did the opposite, and I started a blog from my hospital bed, and I wrote really high on, like, sometimes even fentanyl. Like, really [00:23:00] insane, insane impulses to, like, need to share and to need to, um, to just tell people what I was going through. A little bit of that was like, um, kind of managing how many people were checking in on me. I, like, everybody wanted information and were asking what was going on. And so I felt like, okay, I could do this thing. I could write and people could be updated in that way. But looking back at it, um, I've, I've like almost done the reverse of the, the things that I felt so compelled to share about back then. I'm now a little bit like if I have something going on health wise, I don't share about it as much, you know, because it's like, I don't know. It just, it, it transformed for me. And also it's, it's just a different thing now, but
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I think it ebbs and flow. Like now I feel so open about it and we'll post pictures of myself in the hospital bed and stuff because I think I have. I [00:24:00] care less about what people think about it, and I think at the time I felt so, I just want life to be normal, nothing to see here, you know, and now I've sort of accepted, it took me years, but I've sort of accepted like, no, this isn't just a quick thing that happened, this is huge, this is major, this is a part of me this will always be a part of my story, and it'll be a big chapter in my story. I think, yeah, I write about in my Substack, but I was hopeful that this would take a few months out of my life. I had no idea the extent of my injuries and it took me a really long time to accept that. So I think I was hopeful that I wouldn't have to make it a part of my life. But, um, uh, I don't know if you read Between Two Worlds, but yeah, so I'm obsessed with that book, and I just think she's amazing.
She's great. And I love that she did the similar thing, was just like, [00:25:00] I have to write about this, I have to immediately blog about this, even though I'm kind of between life or death, literally. But, and I think it's so amazing what she started because of that, and I think that came out of an urgent realization of what she was going through, like you experienced, and I think I was really in denial about that.
Nora Logan: Yeah, and she was really young, she was 23, and to be that isolated at that young, um, Yeah. I don't think there's any one right way to do it. Right. That's the other thing. Um, I want to go back to the the date that you mentioned. Cause I, um, I've thought about this so much and, I had this period of time where I was like, okay, I'm going to go on dates and I'm going to tell them straight away and then they'll know. And then everything, like, we'll deal with it that way. And . I, like, had to get it out, [00:26:00] um, straight away. And most of the time when I would say it within, even, like, just messaging people on the apps, I would tell them. And for a while, I actually had it on my profile. And it's still a thing that I, think about so much going into a first date, but I'm less inclined to be like, Okay, you need to know this thing straight away, um, because then like the, yeah, the kind of the horror that shows up for people is like colors the whole date, or, or like the not knowing how, then it just becomes about my illness.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I mean, it's so hard, right? Because I have to, I think we so often, and this is like a tangent on relationships, but I think we so often think of friends loving us one way and our [00:27:00] potential partner loving us another way. And I have to remind myself that what I'm looking for is a friend first and foremost. And so I should hope that they would be sympathetic. And you wouldn't change how they felt about me, you know, and one of my best friends, Devin, she would get so angry at me for being insecure about this. She'd be like, who cares that you have a scar on your hand? Would you not date someone because they had a scar on their hand? And um, but I, I am very much like you where I'm always trying to navigate, how do I tell, how do I talk about this? Because, you know my therapist put it really well where she said, dating is all about vulnerability, but you're going to have to be vulnerable even faster than most people.
And so I have to kind of accept that and I have to accept that whoever my dream partner is. he's going, it's, my hope is going to have to include that he'll accept me with my scars and my accident. You know, I, I have to dream that big [00:28:00] for a partner, which I think, I was hoping I wouldn't have to, and I could just, you know, make someone maybe a little shallow fall in love with me, but it's like, no, I'm going to have to dream about someone who has a bigger capacity to love, unfortunately. Fewer and far between out there, at least in my experience, but Um, I'm willing to hope for that.
Nora Logan: Yeah.
Carolina Barlow: So yeah.
Nora Logan: And it's, and it's out there. That's the thing. Like those, those people are out there and available. Um, so it just takes maybe some sifting through. I know.
Carolina Barlow: Literally sifting through the apps.
Nora Logan: Um, so. I have this question sort of that ties into this. The way you write in general really hits me deep. I think because you get at this conundrum of having your body change so radically with such truth, with such a piercing truth. And you titled this series of Substack posts, Nothing Was Destroyed. And in part two, you write, It was no longer [00:29:00] one exciting night in the hospital. It was becoming a lifestyle. Now, alone with only my family as visitors, I regressed back into being a child. I cried easily. I despaired over my future. A new fear was born, one that would stay with me for the next six years. Who will love me like this?
And that's something I've sat with so much over the years, and I remember I had this ex come to visit me early on in my recovery. And I was complaining and feeling really, like, a lot of self pity about my scar, and really feeling like no one would love me like this and with the really radical change to my body.
And he just said to me, well, I think it's sexy. And he said it in this very, like, matter of fact way, like similar to your friend, Devin, just like, well, just stop being so neurotic about it. [00:30:00] Um, and I really did disagree with him at the time, but it, it's changed with time. Can you tell me, you kind of touched on it just now, but can you tell me how you're sitting with that feeling today of fear of not being loved from the change to your body?
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I think it's I think it's still there. I think I am not totally confident about my scars and yet I have really started to see them as a part of me. So I compare it to kind of, I have a really flat chest. I've always been really flat chested. I write about it in my Substack. And, um I went to rehab for an eating disorder when I was in high school.
And when I came out of rehab, I was just really confident. I had done so much work around myself. And so, you know, it wasn't like I was excited to show guys how flat chested I was, but I really recognized it as like, this is just a part of me. And I love myself and I think I'm fantastic. And I'm getting there with my [00:31:00] scars, where I think this is unusual, you know, my shoulder doesn't look like anyone else's shoulder, my scars don't look like anyone else's scars, my hand doesn't look like anyone else's hand, I can't move things as well, but this is just a part of me, and if I'm gonna love myself, I have to love the entirety of that, and I'm starting to feel protective rather than ashamed, so I'm still feeling very vulnerable, I'm still unsure of what my partner is going to look like, and I'm, you know, not an old maid or anything, but in my mid 30s, I'm starting to think of all the different ways to live your life that aren't a part of a nuclear family.
So I'm also not attached to the idea of being with one person forever, too. I don't know. I have, um I'm more flexible about how to find happiness, or my ideas on how to find happiness are more flexible. But, I am in acceptance of myself, and I'm in hope that someone else will love me this way, [00:32:00] and I have enough references to know that's possible, but yeah, it's still a major insecurity, and I, I literally, I kept my hand covered for years, for years, and I didn't have to, but I would say I had to just because it felt, I mean, I would cry in therapy just talking about showing it to other people, and
truly, after my last surgery, which was in October, I've just started showing people my hand, and it's not like I'm thinking it's nothing, because it's not nothing, it's a huge scar, um, I would call it a deformity, which, you know, has such a negative connotation, but it just is what it is, um, and, again, it's just a part of me, it's just a part of my story, it'll never look perfectly normal, and I'm in greater acceptance of that.
Nora Logan: Mm. Yeah. I, there's so much I identify with, but it's also just like some of that just has to happen with time. [00:33:00]
Carolina Barlow: Unfortunately, I hate that it took so long, because there was so much pain involved, but I also would say that acceptance doesn't mean you love it, you know, I don't love my scars, I just accept them.
Nora Logan: Yeah, no, I'm so with you on that, and I think there's like, there's so much toxic positivity in the culture around like, just love yourself, and it's like, I'm never, I have a hernia where my solar plexus is and I was in a workout class yesterday and I was like, and it sticks out like, and it feels like a deformity and I've written a lot about it and I was in this class and I, and I, I feel self conscious about it and it's like, I can't fucking accept my, I can accept my hernia, I do, I've done so much work around it, I've like, sat with it. I had a, you know, I've had a surgery to fix it. It didn't work, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, acceptance doesn't necessarily mean that I like it or even ever have to love it. But [00:34:00] I accept that it's there and it's, it is a part of me and it's for whatever reason, um, sticking around.
Carolina Barlow: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nora Logan: So I keep mentioning your Substack, but I really want people to read it because I love it so much and , I said this to you before we started recording, but you write about this really at times horrific story and in such a hilarious way and, um, I'm going to read this passage that you wrote.
In between laughing with my friends, sobbing uncontrollably over my new disability, and getting high on morphine, I, ever the workaholic, also began to tackle some emails and texts. I concentrated through the fog of my click clack morphine drip, and responded to every single person who had sent the text, You okay?
Even if they were just acquaintances. Depending on how high I was, my texts ranged from not really, haha, kind of banged up, to I'm in the hospital [00:35:00] because I won't stop farting, or I heard Lorne Michaels was in the car that hit me. Someone texted me to ask if my boss was safe, forgetting that I was also in the car, so I responded, he's fine, but I'll never use my left arm again.
Just to try and transmute some of my pain onto him. So this, this passage really made me lol like every few sentences. And, um, and as I read your story, I said this already. There's so much that's, that's similar it's totally different circumstances, but I was also 28. Um, you're, you, you talk about being really into astrology at the time, um, which I was and I like really thought it would save me for a minute and it definitely didn't. I don't know what, actually, I was thinking about astrology saving me, but, um,
Carolina Barlow: I identify with that.
Nora Logan: Yeah. I, um,, I also was doing work emails from, from my hospital bed. I like had my work laptop with me and I was responding and I felt the need to keep [00:36:00] working and I'm wondering, do you have an idea of what it was for you that made you want to keep working through in this situation where, like, you really could put down the emails?
Carolina Barlow: Right. It took me a really long time to understand that. I think I was in so much shock about what happened, and I was in so much, I wouldn't even call it denial, because I just really didn't know what a big deal it was going to be.
I just didn't, I was, ignorant to what had happened to me. I think I thought life was going to go on as normal. And I, I have a tremendous amount of fear around work only that I'm, I, I've had, you know, uh, my boss when, who I was in the accident with was, is, really the best person in the world. So it wasn't him, but I grew up working. Um, I've had bosses that have instilled a lot of fear in me. And so I was hyper, I'm just a stressed out person when it comes to work. When I think I've [00:37:00] messed up in work, I freak out. I'm just, it's a source of a lot of anxiety for me. And, and that's connected to a lot of love I have for what I do.
Um, appreciation. So it's fine, but. I just couldn't relax. It took me until I transferred hospitals, until I got an idea of what my injuries were, until my boss said, please stop working, and people who I was texting were like, please do not email us back. We're just emailing to make sure you're okay people couldn't believe I was just in bed on my phone. And I mean, my phone was literally making me sick. sick because I had a concussion, so I would look at my phone and I would always throw up, but I'm so addicted to my phone, it didn't really stop me. Like, I was like, no, I, I need, okay, let me look at it again.
People were literally trying to keep it away from me. Um, so I think it's a little bit of being a workaholic. I think it's a little bit of always being stressed that I'm going to fail at work and and I think it was me thinking life is just [00:38:00] going to go on as normal and I can't let this accident mess me up, this little blip mess me up.
And it took me a while to realize, no, this is going to really mess me up. I have no choice, you know?
Nora Logan: Yeah. I think it's also like, that needing to text everyone back too, that wasn't even necessarily a work thing, but I really felt like I had to text everyone and I was on my phone the whole time and I think you put it so succinctly in that like it's, it's shocking to be in a situation like that.
And it's, it's also your lifeline to the outside world. So it kind of makes sense.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And, um it's also just how we're raised in terms of this, like, since we were introduced to phones in our early teens, which is when someone texts you, text them back.
Nora Logan: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Carolina Barlow: And so you don't have the option of really opting out, which I think is something that's a privilege to have to just be [00:39:00] like, you'll reach me when you reach me. Because my work depends on, you know, contacts. I think most of our jobs do. Um, so we always have to be in contact. It's so funny. I was just, I'm working with someone. He texted me last night at 10 p. m. to, to connect on this project. And I, I was texting with him and he said, Oh, I'm so sorry, by the way, for texting you so late.
You don't have to respond. And I was like, I, that's not an option for me. Of course I will respond. I go to bed next to my phone. I'm never not going to respond. So it's probably something I will need to work on in the future.
Nora Logan: Yeah, I think it's, it's also, it's just how we're conditioned. It's, it's a workaholic culture.
And it's also, um, work, for me, is such a sense, like it helps me to feel, um, more of a sense of self. So it's like, of course, I'm going to be glued to my emails whilst I'm dying.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah. Yeah. So I am literally, you know, uh, blood is like [00:40:00] getting cleaned out of my shoulder. I will make sure that this person I had a meeting with once knows I'm okay.
Nora Logan: You also write about how your accident felt completely random and like, it was this fun anecdote and you talked about earlier how you thought you would be going home in a few months or you would be fine in a few months. And that was really how it felt for me at first. I, even, you talk about having balloons and how they morph into monsters.
And I had, um, I had my work also sent me, this huge thing of balloons, get well soon, when I was like first in the hospital before we even knew how bad it would be. And, um, and so when you, when you write about that, I was like, oh my gosh, they morphed into monsters for me too. Um, and it,
Carolina Barlow: yeah. Stop sending the big balloons.
Nora Logan: It was really like, they're scary and [00:41:00] also like. Too much, too soon, like,
Carolina Barlow: Too much, too soon, take up too much room. It's a very sweet gesture, but flowers are fine.
Nora Logan: Flowers are good. Um, and at the beginning, it also felt like a party, which is what you describe. And at the beginning, I was cracking jokes and making light of the situation. And then , it felt much more like a nightmare. What was that transition for you between the initial shock? And, like, the quote unquote party at the hospital with your friends, and then the quieter task of healing from it.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, that's such a good question. I think I, I didn't have any, there didn't seem to be a lot of boundaries between the two, so I was very high, joking a lot. I might, it's my nature to joke a lot and then I remember they initially thought my left arm would never move again, which thankfully was not the case. But I remember them coming in and telling me that I wouldn't lose, I've lost function in my left arm. And I was devastated. And so in [00:42:00] front of people, I, my friends who were visiting, I was just sobbing uncontrollably.
And like, they were just witnessing one of the worst moments of my life. And, um, and then more people would visit and I would kind of forget what was happening. And so I think I was just so unclear, it was so unreal. I was so in shock. I was in so much denial that I would vacillate between laughing. And this is not as serious as it seems and everyone who came to visit me for the most part, we're in good spirits. I'll never forget, um, a couple of agents from this big agency came to visit me. I think they thought I would be in like a hospital that was a broken arm and be like, Hey guys, yeah, just checking out the faces.
I was laughing so hard because I thought like, this is so funny. My boss saw me topless. Like I had. I did not know how bad it was, and they were two of the first people to visit me, and I didn't know that, like, my face was swollen because I had hit, you know, I'd flown to one side of the car, and I'd [00:43:00] hit, I didn't know that half my head was shaved, too, or a quarter of my head was shaved, so I looked insane, when I finally saw my reflection in my mirror, I was so upset that people had been seeing me this way.
Um, but yeah, so I, I, It was sometimes my reaction to being seen was contradictory to how people were seeing me where I was just like, Hi, oh my gosh, isn't this crazy? And people just looked at me like they were going to my funeral. Like it was that I'm sure you had similar reactions where just people were looking at me with such immense pity, but also shock and just grief.
And it was so weird to be seen that way, so it was really between the two and they kind of blended together and as it progressed, it became less, there was nothing to joke about, I was devastated when I got home, I went through the worst depression of my life as I write about, um, there was no jokes to be made about my limitations or what had happened, it was just horrible, and [00:44:00] so, once the shock was gone, once, like I said, I realized it was a lifestyle, I just lost all sense lightness around it and I realized that something really serious had happened in my life.
And I'm sure, you know, you had this similar realization, because it just descends upon us at one point where we realize like, oh no, this is, this is bad. This is, there's no, it's non negotiably bad.
Nora Logan: Yeah. Yeah I mean, it's like I'm having flashbacks as you're describing the agents coming to you to the hospital because I had this WhatsApp group that I called Liverin La Vida Loca and, like, was cracking jokes about, , I had so many jokes about the liver that weren't even really that funny. But I, I made so much light of the situation, even in the aftermath of my surgery, and just picturing people's faces as they would come in, um, and [00:45:00] I would keep cracking jokes, and they couldn't, like, hide it. And maybe sometimes if it was a really good friend, they would laugh, but there was a lot of that disconnect, like there's such a disconnect.
Carolina Barlow: Right, right. Yeah.
Nora Logan: So, I really like to talk about death. I named the podcast, So, Life Wants You Dead, um, and you talk about death being nothing to fear and I myself have had, you know, I had a few brushes with death throughout my illness.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah.
Nora Logan: And you wrote that you look forward to it when it eventually comes for you not in a dark or suicidal way, but the way, as you write, the way old men look forward to a steam room, which is really funny to me because I think, I really think about death and my experience of it was like sinking into a warm bath.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah.
Nora Logan: Can you tell me what you gathered from being close to death and also why you look forward to it now?
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I had a very weird experience during the [00:46:00] accident where when the car was sliding, I was in pain and it hurt, but I understood that, it was only going to last for a short period of time. I don't know, this sounds weirdly spiritual, and maybe it is, but it's just how I experienced the accident, and then I remembered feeling really sharp pain against my head. And I remember thinking, if this goes on for longer, I'm gonna die. But it wasn't fear, I wasn't afraid or anything. I just knew, okay, this is, I'm close to dying now, and I don't want to. And then I screamed, and coincidence or not, the car stopped. And, um, I think we're scared of pain and we're scared, our egos are scared of not existing and like the loss of that. And I think I'm not scared of pain anymore because I understand that shock overrides it. And I [00:47:00] think I'm, I'm much more scared of emotional pain.
I just, I, I'm. I'm betting your experience is similar in that you go through so many painful surgeries, you have so many painful recoveries that pain, you know, when people say, this is gonna hurt when they draw blood from me or something, I'm like, I promise you it's not, like, no, it's not going to be close to hurting.
It might be uncomfortable, but no, I don't experience that as pain. Um, so I think I'm just not scared of pain anymore. And I think I'm, I've been under so many times and I, as we were discussing, love being under so much that I think the idea of an ego death sounds great. I, I think being stuck separate from everyone else, um, seems a lot more uncomfortable than feeling one with everyone, which happens to be my personal belief, in what happens when we die.
It doesn't have to be everyone's, but it's what I think about it. Hmm. Or I don't, you know, I've collected that from [00:48:00] random people, so it's not even like an original thought I have or an intuitive thought I have, it's just what I think, you know. Rob Delaney, who wrote a great book, A Heart That Works, um, so good.
But he talks about it like you're a glass of water that gets poured into a body of water, and that's how I really like to think about it. Um, so,
Nora Logan: That's how I think about it too.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I just don't think there's anything to be scared of there. And from being close to it, I just think that there was a part of me that knew I was going to be okay, but that I didn't want to go through with it yet. So I don't know if you've had a similar experience, but, um, I would feel, I would have felt terrible for my family had I died, but I wouldn't have been scared for me, if that makes sense.
Nora Logan: Yeah, that's so interesting because I really. I don't actually, it's interesting because I like, don't, I don't talk about having these near death experiences so often, [00:49:00] even, which is, I mean, I do on the podcast, but in my day to day life, I don't talk about it that much.
But when I, when I think about it, I really, it really just felt like, it felt like a choice. Like, it was so, so close, like, they, they couldn't actually believe that I managed to stay alive as long as I did with how bad my liver was, the doctors, and it, I just, I, I always compare it to this rope that I was hanging on to, and I, if I lifted one finger, I would go, and, um, and I wasn't ready to, and I didn't want to.
I, and. And it was, I would have been, I would have been so fine and I even in my darker moments have been like, oh, fuck man, that would have been so much easier.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, yeah, [00:50:00] I, a hundred percent. I think it's, it's so funny. I was just saying this to my mom. I live with my mom, she moved back to be with me after the accident.
She helps me with a lot. But I, I just said like, I love you this morning. And I told her like, ever since the accident, I'm so clingy. And I think a part of it is just this gratitude I have for like, still getting more time with all these people. And as if I let go, if I let go of them now, I'll lose them forever or something.
But it's just like, I understand it's not even an intellectual understanding. I understand in my gut that I got free time. I got stolen time.
Nora Logan: Yeah, and it's, uh, you, when you talk about ego death, too, it's like, you do experience that ego death with going through something like what you went through.
And in my own experience of it, , I have clung onto relationships and people in my life, um, more than, I mean, I was always really clingy. Always . [00:51:00]
I mean, yeah.
Carolina Barlow: So when it comes to men, I was like always, always, even my mom, I've always been really clingy to her, so it's fine.
Nora Logan: Yeah. But, but even like people that maybe I didn't need to keep clinging onto, I I Right.
Would like held on for dear life, in, in both positive and maybe negative ways. Just this, like, I think it's like a, even a,
I want to say psychotic, but I'm, that's, that's not being kind to myself, but just like this need and desire to be connected to the people I love.
Carolina Barlow: Oh yeah, I would, I would describe my, uh, yeah, not as psychotic, but as, um. What's the word? Like a little manic. I would say
Nora Logan: Manic. That's much kinder. Yeah, that's much kinder.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, like a little bit. Yeah. Um, beyond reason, you know? Yeah. Like I, it's, there's something scary about losing them and it's because, we almost did.
Nora Logan: Yeah. Yeah. So you also talk about a low point. where you experienced suicidal [00:52:00] ideation, which I also have had at various points throughout my recovery, there were times where the pain just felt like too much to bear. And your parents at one point decided to reach out to Stephen King, who has also been in a terrible accident. Can you tell me a little bit about that email and what it did for you?
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I mean, he I really wanted to die, but I think what I wanted was relief, and I think that's what I wanted more than anything, and I was going, I was regressing to a really childlike state, as I said, and I was almost, I, I, and I really explicitly said this to my mother, like, I want you to take this away, I want you to turn back time, and I want you to take this away, and I was almost threatening them with my death, like, as if, if they, if they didn't shape up and build a time machine, or if they didn't figure out how to get me out of this mess, then I was gonna kill myself, which [00:53:00] sounds, which is so crazy, but it's really how I felt, and I think also a therapist pointed this out to me where she said you want people to know how much pain you're in, you know, you just want people to see how much pain you're in, because I do think that brings some relief, I think being seen really brings relief, um, which is why, you know, I think this podcast is so great and why it was so helpful to me, for me to see other people go through, um, similar things, but um, yes, Stephen King wrote an email basically saying that you can't avoid resentment and bitterness in your recovery, and that was just a part of it, and that what goes on in your head is none of your business, and that you will someday, your body will miraculous and can perform miracles, which was already the case, you know I'd already and like you said, doctors out were already shocked by what I could do just by [00:54:00] moving my arm, doctors were shocked and you know that your body was capable your body and mind were capable of this incredible recovery, and that one day you would look back in your yardstick for pain would be a lot bigger than everyone else's. And so I think what that did to me was, first of all, just the, just, just the kindness that someone like him would receive an email from a stranger about their daughter was in a car accident and think, let me sit down and write a very thoughtful email out, I think that is the amount of empathy we should all strive for, um,
Nora Logan: And it is you share it on your Substack and it is so thoughtful and considered and he even writes a postscript.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, it's hard, but it will get better. Um, yeah, no, he's so thoughtful, and I'm indebted to him. I actually reached out to him for a work thing years later, and he just wrote back like, I'm glad [00:55:00] that I hope that anything I said was helpful. I'm glad if that helped at all but very off the cuff, just super generous, not at all holier than thou, really just a special person. I had a lot of gratitude for just the kindness, and it, also someone who, you know, he himself had described being suicidal after his accident, um, and he, was alive and talking about how you could recover miraculously and obviously he didn't mean it in a weird The Secret sort of way, but he meant it more. Just trust your body and trust your mind and good things will happen. You will get out of this in better shape than you think, which is certainly the case, um, despite my scars and despite my limited, mobility, but I think it was just reading about someone's testimony to being on the other side of something that was really difficult, and I think that was the most helpful was meeting people [00:56:00] you know, I had a friend who was an actor who went through a chronic pain syndrome and she was on the other side of it and when she came over or when she would text me or anything, it would just be like, thank God I'm hearing from someone who knows how much pain I'm in and is not in that much pain anymore, who has also been through it. It was just, I needed that context so badly. And so I think that him sending that email out of the blue is really a gift. Yeah.
Nora Logan: Yeah. Just having someone who's been through it and who can. show you what's possible. That it's like, yeah. Um, so I was wondering if you would read a passage from your Substack for us.
Carolina Barlow: So I wrote, now I want to write about my recovery. I want to write about crossing the Stephen King threshold. I want to write about the benefits of surviving the reason that a small part of us fights our instinct to disappear. I want to write about what happens when you come up for air from the silted bottom [00:57:00] of the lake, having touched part of the human experience that the only the lucky fear.
I do not fear it. I have been there.
Nora Logan: Thank you for reading that.
Carolina Barlow: Oh, yeah.
Nora Logan: Can you tell me about what made you decide that you were ready to write about it?
Carolina Barlow: It's such a good question. I really don't know what it was besides, well, that's not true. I had a hand surgery that was very successful and Um, it really helped me feel like I was starting to close the door on the accident.
So yeah, I felt, I felt for the first time like it was something really that was in the past, I think. I had always felt stuck in it, like being stuck in amber, you know, just the accident was all around me. I, there was no before. After there was just the accident and even talking about it now, [00:58:00] like I said, I still get annoyed when people with people's reactions, but it has gotten easier. I think I just finally thought of it as something that had happened to me that I was moving on from, which, and then it was like, I have so much to say about this, you know, which you clearly have as well. And I feel like, there's so many not even lessons from this, because I don't like that word, but there's so many, there's so much, the humanity here, and more so than you get with any other subjects, you know, um, everyone is going to go through something like this, whether they want to or not, and, you know, time steals all, so it's just, our turn was earlier than most, and I think you find out so much through.
This about yourselves, about others, about the capacity for love, the capacity for pain, the capacity for heartbreak and grief and anger, you know, and, [00:59:00] um, so I, as a writer, I felt just like I have so much I want to say about this and I finally feel the distance, and it wasn't even like a huge distance, again, I'm still getting surgeries, but, but it was enough that I felt like I wasn't writing about the current moment.
Nora Logan: Yeah. And what you just said about the capacity to love and humanity and heartbreak, you didn't necessarily use the word heartbreak, but those are the best stories. Those are some of my favorite stories. And as a writer, it's such a rich, it's rich experience for mining.
Carolina Barlow: Yes, yes, 100%.
Nora Logan: And also, which you're proving every time I get one of your Substacks in my, in my inbox, you don't write about your accident exclusively, but there's so much comedy in it too, which I really felt from the beginning.
Carolina Barlow: [01:00:00] Yeah, there was just no, there's, there's no way around it. I remember me and, um, uh, my boyfriend at the time, it was like a year after the accident and we were on his couch watching TV and one of those ads for, um, uh, accident lawyer came up on TV and it was like, did you know that accidents can be devastating?
And we both just looked at each other and laughed like there was just no way around some of it not being funny. And, um, I, I don't like melodramas or stuff that's too dramatic in terms of movies or books because I just don't believe that's how life is, and that's not how I've experienced it, where I'm like, there's always levity, it's just unavoidable, and it doesn't mean that what happened wasn't devastating, but it, it just means that, um, it was in the context of life.
Nora Logan: And it was human.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nora Logan: So we're going to close out, but I have three questions that I always ask my guests. Please. So if you lived in a world that completely catered to your [01:01:00] disability, what would that look like?
Carolina Barlow: I love this question. I think it's so, um, you know, uh, we have to imagine, uh, radical care in our society. I think that it would be. affordable caretakers. So I'm so lucky to have my mom. And if I didn't, my life would be incredibly difficult. You know, I was just trying to take laundry out of the machine the other day and I have one working arm and a lot of people get by with one arm. It's not unusual, but everything is slower, I can't make a bed. Um, it will take me double the time at least as someone else. And so I think that yeah, If I was to get older, I would need someone to help me about the house, and it's not like I couldn't even afford that now, and I'm by no means underprivileged, so I think that we need to have government covered caretakers, [01:02:00] and we think about, you know, society as we all age, too, like, we should all be taken care of, and we should all have dignity in that, you know, we were both lucky to be in major cities as people who were injured, and I can't imagine having that.
Not been in one of the best hospitals in the country, coincidentally, you know, so I think that I personally don't understand why, um, if you want to be a doctor, your school should be free, I really do believe that, like, you're, if you, you're going to the military, they're going to pay for your college, why when you're doing a public service, would they not pay for school? We need more doctors. We need more nurses. They shouldn't be in student debt. I have a family friend who's a pediatrician who's still paying. He's in his sixties and he's still paying student loans. And so I just think that we really need to recognize who is building our society who is healing our society rather than just a military state that we're just rewarding those who are tearing things [01:03:00] apart, um, and defending things. So I, I really do believe in just radical caretakers and caretaking for our caretakers, our nurses and, um, I believe their kids schools should be covered. Especially because they were on the front lines of the pandemic, you know, they were giving their lives to take care of others, they shouldn't have to worry about student debt.
So, yeah, that is, um, what I would dare to imagine for our society.
Nora Logan: Such a good answer. And nurses are truly angels that walk the earth, like, just any, any time that I've been in, um, In direct relationship with nurses, it's like the, the way that they caretake our society and they're these unsung heroes, um, because they really are, it's, um, I love that answer of, of doctors and nurses and it's a public service that they, and they, they should, they should have their school covered.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah. Can you imagine like I remember [01:04:00] getting bathed by nurses and they bathed me like I would bathe myself like that intimately and I was just shocked I was like I would never touch a human body like the way you're touching me right now because I'm I'm not even like someone who's like OCD or anything but I'm just like oh I don't want to touch another naked human.
Nora Logan: No I never would and the the lack of fear and the lack of any kind of mishigas around it, like 100 percent just like this is my job, and this is what I'm doing, and I'm taking care of you in this moment. Yeah. Yeah. And then my next question is, what's one phrase or saying that you always come back to?
Carolina Barlow: Um, one I really like right now that I've been really reminding myself of is that I don't know what to hope for. So I just feel like we have really set plans and designs for what our life is supposed to look like, what is going to make us happy, and a lot of the times that's not true. And so, for instance, I'm right now sure that if this date doesn't work out, [01:05:00] that I'm never going to find love and that I will be single forever.
And I have to remind myself of all the times I've been wrong about the guys that I think I should be with, or the work opportunities I should get, or the jobs that I chased after. And that I didn't get and were totally fine because I got a better one. So I, I just have to remind myself that I have a limited imagination. And so I have to trust that there are greater plans for me or that I can't even imagine, what I deserve, um, which sounds whatever, maybe woo woo, but I just, I'm glad that a lot of my smaller dreams didn't work out.
Nora Logan: That's so good. That's so good for me to hear in this moment too, because I'm always like, it's not going to work out. But, and then the things that don't work out. Potentially protective in some way.
Carolina Barlow: A hundred, but the guys that it didn't work out with, oh my god, I'm just so grateful.
Nora Logan: Thank god.
Carolina Barlow: It's crazy. [01:06:00] Thank god.
Nora Logan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carolina Barlow: And you only, you need a little bit of time for that, but not even a lot of time, so, and the, you know, anyway, so I, I'm very, um, I, I'm trying to give it up and just be like, I don't know what to hope for, I just hope that we're all okay.
Nora Logan: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That's a good one. And then finally, what's one thing you do to keep yourself creative each day?
Carolina Barlow: Um, I journal every day. Every morning I have a to do list that I check through and it's like, uh, meditation and, and I'm not like, I do like a YouTube video of meditation and I do it from like three minutes to seven minutes, it's not radical and it's not, I'm not a monk at all, um, but I meditate and I journal two pages every day of just, you know, meditation. You know, free thought. Um, and it helps me write every day and it helps get out whatever I'm thinking that I don't realize I'm thinking and, um, sometimes it's very repetitive, but, um, I [01:07:00] do think it's really helpful. It's the one thing I took from The Artist's Way.
Nora Logan: Yeah, I took that too for a long time from The Artist's Way. And then last year I was going through, um, well actually I was on steroids, which was, were making me manic. And I was, I was driving myself crazy. And I was like, I'm, I'm going to take a little break.
And I've just recently come back to it. And it's, it's such a great, it's, it's also the only thing I took from the Artist's Way, but.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, and it's a great thing to take.
Nora Logan: Great thing.
Carolina Barlow: Yeah, I don't even do three pages because I just, I know I won't do it regularly so I only do two. But I love it.
Nora Logan: All right. Well, Carolina, thank you so much for being here today. I loved this conversation.
Carolina Barlow: Me too. Thank you for having me. And thank you for doing this podcast. As I said, I wish I had had it during my accident, um, because I think it's just a really helpful for anyone who is or will go through anything, which hopefully you're spared our situations.
But, um. But I think that it's a noble cause.
Nora Logan: Thank you. Yeah. I could talk to you for hours about this. Maybe one day you'll [01:08:00] come back, um
Carolina Barlow: Yes, that's my dream. I need to go back to New York.
Nora Logan: Yeah. All right. Thank you.
Carolina Barlow: All right. Thanks. That was our show So, Life Wants You Dead. This episode was made with support from Stephanie MoDavis and Ruby Shah. Our illustrations are by Ronaé Fagon. If you like what you hear, please subscribe leave us a review, rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
You can find us on Instagram @solifewantsyoudead, where you can follow along for updates about the show. Thanks so much, and see you next time.